the new recumbent has arrived!

Tuesday, September 27, 2005

Imagine it as a Bacchetta that folds. It's got a cool molded Optima seat with tons of adjustability, height adjustable above seat steering, options for every kind of drive train imaginable (yes, it takes a front derailleur!), 406 wheels or 451 wheels (with v-brakes and dual pivots respectively), adjustable bottom bracket height on the 406 (Tour) option.

For all you original SatRDay owners/admirers, the jackshaft has been removed and a nice clean idler wheel takes care of chain tension. Also, the whole thing folds without having to remove any piece, including the stem. The seat, front boom, rear end, handlebars and stem all fold. It's lighter and goes into the suitcase much easier to boot.

Watch here for more info about it. I'll reply to people's questions here so I don't have to repeat myself.

Posted at 12:07 pm by bfwalter


	slo jo recumbo September 27, 2005 12:08 PM PDT Neat Walter: So what do you offer on a trade in for the old SRD? <grin> Seriously, that might be one of my options, and now back to our regularly scheduled questions. In the meantime, it'll be a few months before I can add this to the stable. Photos: Can I post a link from BROL to these? 1. Riser: Is it flex or fixed? If fixed, is flex an option? 2. Riser: Does it move up and down to allow for different "knee" height etc. 2. Seat: Which Optima seat is this. I'd be interested if a Bacchetta EuroMesh seat could be used as a replacement. I can ride the EuroMesh without the foam quite comfortably. Would save on space and might be a tad more comfortable. 3. Seat Struts: On highracers the seat struts attach to the drop outs at a "backwards" angle to give support. With the seat struts on the new SRD under and forward, did you notice any sidewards flex movement? How did tests go when the rider really "pushes" against the back of the seat for power? 4. Seat Angle: Did you folks do any measurements of the seat angle at its most upward and backward positions? If so, what are they? 5. Seat clamp: Is it a QR or do bolts hold the seat in place? Movement along the complete seat attachment or is it "spaced" such as the AERO? 6. Hub: Optional to replace front derailer? 7. Wheels: Why a 20 spoke pattern? Can regular wheels be used with the new SRD? Which wheels are spec'd on the new SRD? 8. Weight? What does the new SRD weigh? 9. Full specs: When will you publish exact specs, such as brake model, BB, drive train, etc? Suitcase Photo: Ummm...two things don't look right: (1) Fork. The fork looks like it extends right into the back of the suitcase and would prevent closing. (2) Lower Left. There is a red piece hanging into the lip of the suitcase which would prevent closing. Suggest you re-shoot this or the "nay" sayers out there will pick this apart. Also, where is the SPACER? TSA didn't replace the spacer after an inspection when I first started flying resulting in a bent derailer, bent front fork and a bent front wheel on my old SRD. Dem's me thoughts... Slo Joe


	bikefridaywalter September 27, 2005 12:33 PM PDT Yes, we do take trade-ins, whether it's the old recumbent or not. The riser has about 3" of adjustment up and down. No flex option.. but it does fold! The Optima seat we're going to have as as standard is the polyester one. In theory, all of the options are available though we'd have to special order the ones we don't have in stock. We end up drilling a hole for the seat rails in the back of the thing so I'm not sure if anything else would work. More on Optima's seats: http://tinyurl.com/ddkau Our version of the highracer is still geared towards comfort. There is an elastomer suspension (that's what those blue and black piece are) and it's difficult to determine if there is flex in the seat when the rear end naturally flexes. So in that sense, it will ride just like any other bent with rear suspension on it. Seat angles: 25-65 degrees. The seat clamps are all QRs, except for the seat rails in the back which are the best way to adjust angle. You can clamp it in position anywhere along the 6" range of adjustment. Options for all drive trains are there: double/triple with front derailleur and a standard hub, Capreo, DualDrive, Rohloff, you name it! Weight on the FSA-equipped prototype was 26.5. I don't imagine that a heavy version of the tour option would be much over 30 or 31 pounds. Specs are dependent on you, Joe! Let me know what kind of spec you want to see and I can make it happen. But all the options are available.


	Name September 27, 2005 04:21 PM PDT What is the price range?


	bfwalter September 27, 2005 07:36 PM PDT As I said before there is a Tour version and a Sport version and the former is the less expensive of the two. They start in around $2500 or so. Being custom as they are, the sky is the limit with regards to the upper end. A $4500 Dura Ace spec passed by my desk the other day!


	slo jo recumbo September 28, 2005 09:08 AM PDT Walter, Couple of comments in the "helpful" vein I hope. www.monkeyview.net Anyway to remove that? Here's the short version why: There was a group of recumbent owners in the Chicago area who had a website "Monkey something". Simply this website was a place to "bust balls" and attack anyone and everyone. They called Bryan Balls' wife a whore, slut, etc., was a place to post anything at all and most of it was pretty gross amongst other things. Anyone who gets to your site is liable to think that the www.monkeyview.net is somehow related and get completely turned off. Suggest change Bacchetta to "HighRacer" . There are legions of fans of Volae (www.hostelshoppe.com), RANS, Serien, etc. who own the "HighRacer" looking bent. Using "Bacchetta" might upset folks, although I got to say, Bacchetta was the driving force of the HighRacer surge in the U.S. even though Europe had them for some time. Just might be a good not to turn off some of the other highracer owners. Suitcase comments: Suggest you either remove my comments about how it doesn't look as if the folded model fits in the suitcase safely, or respond in your answers. I was pointing out a concern and didn't know I'd go National. Does this mean I can put that I've been published on my vitae? <grin> Looking forward to seeing you when I'm in Oregon in December. Will stay tuned to your Blog. And if I didn't say it before, Welcome Back. Joe


	bfwalter September 28, 2005 09:18 AM PDT Joe, I'm not sure how I overlooked all your questions, so let me get to the latest batch and then I'll try to catch up on the older ones: monkeyview: sorry no way to remove it. I have used monkeyview.net for quite a while to store all my pictures. They tag the monkeyview.net on it. It's a free service and has nothing to do with whatever you're talking about. It's certainly not something I want to be associated with, but on the other hand, I don't want to move all my photos to a new place either. Since the Bacchetta did sort of inspire the whole thing here and since anyone that knows highracers knows Bacchetta, I thought it would be the most evocative example to pick. Highracer to those that don't know what a highracer is (though they may have heard of Bacchetta) could be meaningless. Suffice it to say, I'm not trying to exclude anyone and similarly, our new recumbent is not completely like a Bacchetta. I have an official poetic license if you'd like to see it. Now for packing. The pictures are of a prototype. The next version will actually fold a little bit better than that one, so it may not look perfect in the suitcase. Also you'll notice in addition to the "spacer" missing, there are no packing materials. Clearly, this is not how we would want to send out a bike. Have no fears, the final version will most definately fit happily in the suitcase and the crush protector will definately be there. And the one question I didn't answer from the old batch was about the wheels. We used them because we had them and they're light. Just like the drivetrain and the rest of the components, any of the options are available. We could do spoke counts as low as 16 and high as 36 and a few points in between. It's up to you. So hopefully I didn't miss anything! In other news, we now have a page on the website regarding the new recumbent and you can watch there for news and info as well: http://www.bikefriday.com/bf/nextsatrday


	Ken Kramer September 28, 2005 09:55 AM PDT Looks like you guys have come up with a real winner! Three questions: What is the seat heigth with 406 wheels and 1.125 tires, and what would the estimated gear inch range be? What is the wheelbase in inches? Thanks, Ken


	bfwalter September 28, 2005 10:44 AM PDT Thanks for the comments, Ken! The seat height to the top of the foam on the 451mm version with 1.125" tires is 24" so if you figure ((451-406)/2)/25.4=.89", then it should be about 23.1". Wheelbase on both versions will be 42", so according to the official recumbents.com website, we still have a short wheelbase, admittedly on the upper end of the spectrum. As for gear inch range, every possible option is available to you. You can do a Rohloff, a DualDrive, a Capreo, a standard hub, a fixed gear, whatever. We've got standard cassettes that range from 11-34 and we've got chainring sizes from 24-60. So figure out what you want and we can do it. :) Try http://www.soulbikes.com/gears for an excellent gear calculator to help with that.


	bfwalter September 29, 2005 02:03 PM PDT relevant BROL links: http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=12985&page=1&pp=10 http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=12256&page=1&pp=10 (beware the flames on the 2nd one!) :)


	bfwalter September 30, 2005 08:15 AM PDT now one on bikejournal.com: http://www.bikejournal.com/thread.asp?ThreadID={300DD060-7A04-4949-A0AC-291C5DA25D15}&mostRecent=1 note you'll have to be registered and logged in. if you can't find it the thread name is "New Folding Recumbent: SAT R DAY"


	bfwalter October 4, 2005 02:11 PM PDT One last thing to note about the bike is that we're doing a limited first run of the bikes. Specifically, we are picking and choosing only a few dates in our November and December schedule for the new 'bent. Given the limited nature, if you'd like to get one of these before the year ends, the time to act is now. If you need some help with a spec or anything, drop me a line or call up 800-777-0258 x 126.


	Name October 5, 2005 04:42 PM PDT I really like the design of the new SatRDay. The choice of the Optima seat is right on. Don't let it fool you, it is really comfortable. I've ridden this seat on an Optima Lynxx for over 8,000 miles including a number of centuries. There is no "recumbent but," weight is evenly distributed along your spine. In addition hips are supported (has proven a virtual cure for sacroiliac pain and sciatica for me). The firm seat gives you something to push against when climbing hills. I worried about neck fatigue in the beginning (Optima makes a neck rest) but it never materialized. I remember looking at the pad for the first time and thinking it looked like something you'd buy in the "abrasives" section of the hardware store. I certainly would not put bare skin against it however with appropriate clothing it is very comfortable and most importantly allows you to stay out of the moisture that accumulates. (I know heavy sweaters who have drilled holes in the seat to drain it!)


	Ryano October 8, 2005 08:03 AM PDT Under Seat Steering option...? (just kidding!) Absolutely awesome looking machine. Really stoked that you went for the high racer style. This bike is the stuff of my dreams. Would love to see some close up shots of the folding action at some stage. No rush.


	bfwalter October 10, 2005 12:07 PM PDT Well, seriously USS is in the works. In other news, we currently have three bikes in progress: one to test ride, one for our welder, and one for our parts cutter. It's nice that they'll get a little experience making them before they have to do it full-time. So if anyone wants to do a test ride, it looks like we should have something ready by the end of the week or the beginning of next week. Let me know if you want to make an appointment. Hopefully with these new bikes I'll also have some more pics. Keep watching.


	bfwalter October 11, 2005 02:45 PM PDT The difference between seat height and bottom bracket height is about 5-6" (the bottom bracket is clearly higher). The eccentric piece on the Tour version can further reduce this difference by about 3", making the difference about 2-3". To give this some context, this is about the difference between seat and bottom bracket on the old SatRDay, but in the other direction. The old one had a bottom bracket about 2-3" lower than the seat.


	Roman S. Stanley October 12, 2005 05:36 PM PDT Next Friday looks like a good, true recumbent. 'Think it will fit 4'10" tallers? You have the specs from my old SatRDay. It's good you abandoned the jack shaft and that fast-wearing sprocket.


	bfwalter October 13, 2005 07:32 AM PDT Roman, Long time no hear! Good to hear from you indeed and hope all is well on the other side of the country. I also appreciate your comments on the bike. I've noticed a few people are a bit concerned about the jackshaft as they seem to think it was a more tidy way of managing chain tension among other things. Frankly, it was a real troublesome pain both in production and service, so I'm glad it's gone, too. It seems a lot of the concern stems from the Vision design and this is not what ours is like.. it's more like Bacchetta though our idler is a bit father back. Regardless, this is no big deal. Getting back to your question, not only will the bike be made to fit your xseam (which is 36" for the curious), but the standover height shouldn't be a problem either. The seat is about 23" tall and you have a 26" inseam so you should be able to still plant your feet on the ground when you need to stop. Let me know if you have any other questions or comments or needs, Roman. As I said before, we DO encourage trade-ins.. :)


	Rich October 22, 2005 07:31 AM PDT Hi. I've had a couple of conversations with Kurt over in sales regarding a suitable spec set for one of your next SatRDays (or whatever you decide to call it). I have one leg that is about 1/2 longer than the other. I can't quite decide whether to get two different length cranks on the bike, or not. I ride a recumbent exercise bike every day and find it comfortable, but in order for it to feel right, one of my feet ends up contacting the pedals (there are straps on the pedals that do not restrict front to back foot position) in a different spot than the other foot. Any thoughts on this? Also, when are the first bikes going out so that we can get some first-hand reactions and comments?


	bfwalter October 22, 2005 10:12 AM PDT Rich, Your concern is really a bike-related one more than it is a recumbent related one. I would say that the best solution would be different length cranks. For maximum efficiency (which you care about even if you don't race since it means you can go the same distance with less effort), the ball of your foot should always be over the pedal spindle. Ideally, though, I would consult your doctor about this. If he/she doesn't know the best solution, they'll know who to refer you to. But in general, most people have done different length cranks. As for the first bikes going out, believe it or not, it should be within the next few weeks or so. The first are due in the beginning of November. We DO have a few dates left in December but they're going quick if you wanted to be a part of the first run.


	Rich October 22, 2005 11:08 AM PDT Hi. Thanks for the info. I was thinking....I should wait for the second run and give you all some time to make any needed alterations...get some feedback from the brave first run folks. Make sense? Or...be crazy....take the plunge...? When is the second run?


	Rich October 22, 2005 12:36 PM PDT When is the second run expected? I am a bit hesitant to jump in before a bit of customer feedback is happening. Waiting for the second run, and any beta release fixes, may be prudent. Or should I just be brave and impulsive...this is the question.


	bfwalter October 22, 2005 03:27 PM PDT Rich, Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I've been busy selling bikes over here. :) In any case, we plan on going into full production with the recumbent starting at the first of the year. The only real reason why we're having this limited run is to give the production some time to learn how to build the new model. It's kind of like packing the bike for the first time.. it takes a while because you're learning. Anyways, we've been through two prototypes, made some recent minor changes to the latter. Hanz has commuted with that bike and done some lunch rides with it. Kurt has taken it on a lunch ride, too, screaming hard downhill. We are currently working on three more bikes. One of them will be a demo and the other two will be built as personal bikes by our welder and metal parts cutter respectively. I'm bringing up this point because we have actually developed this bike quite a bit. I don't see much of a possibility of changing things in the future. And besides, this is still a Bike Friday product and as a company, we believe that customer service is our number one priority. If something didn't work right on your first run bike, we'd make it right. So if you want my honest opinion, I would suggest taking the plunge. We got your back, friend. :)


	Rich October 23, 2005 03:10 PM PDT Hi. Thanks for the encouragement! What do I need to know in picking out a nice maintenance stand for this beauty? Thanks.


	bfwalter October 24, 2005 09:20 AM PDT No prob, Rich. To answer your other question, if you get Park's Extreme Range clamp, you can adapt any Park stand to work by clamping the maintube of our bent. Here are the respective links: http://parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=46&item=100-4X http://parktool.com/products/category.asp?cat=23


	Maarian Baldy November 3, 2005 03:10 PM PST Would you consider a non-Friday recceumbent as a trade-in? We have a Vision tandem recumbent. thanks, Marian


	Rich November 4, 2005 01:57 PM PST Hi. Could you tell me a bit about the angling capabilities of the boom? I assume that the boom is the part of the frame that the pedals....cranks are attached to, yes? Thanks, Rich


	bfwalter November 6, 2005 02:20 PM PST Marian (and Dick)-- no, we won't take non-BF's on trade in. But I'd be happy to help you sell it. I guess we can talk more about this when you guys come to visit! Rich-- http://www.monkeyview.net/id/990/bikes/friday/eccentric.vhtml should help clarify the adjustable boom. And yes, the boom is the tube that the cranks are attached to.


	Jason November 15, 2005 05:19 PM PST Glad to hear you are considering USS. What is your rough guess about timing for this feature? It's been a long time since I looked at bikes. Please tell me where I can find more info about the three options for hubs you refer to: Rohloff, DualDrive, and Capreo. Or any others, such as internal multi-speed hubs? Washington seems to always have rain, so that is a consideration for daily outdoor riding. Please give more details on the suspension system (a photo close-up would help). How much vertical travel does it have? Can you put on different bands, e.g. for riders of various weights who want a softer (or harder) ride. My reason for riding a bent is pelvic injury; I can no longer ride normal bike, and absorption of road bumps is a make-or-break (brake?) consideration. Thanks, Jason


	rob November 20, 2005 08:56 PM PST Hi, What's the wheelbase of the new model? Actually, and what was the old wheelbase? Thanks, Rob


	bfwalter November 27, 2005 01:02 PM PST Sorry for taking so long, folks. Busy selling bikes, I guess. Wheelbase info can be found above. Use your browser to search for the word. Short answer: 42". USS? We're not rushed to do it and we've been focused on other thing. We haven't even prototyped it yet. But it should eventualy happen. The plan is to make it retrofittable. So I'd just get the ASS-equipped bike, ride it, and then bother with USS later when it comes out. The ASS is positioned better than most are, i.e. you won't have the problem of punching yourself in the chin with your fists. Who knows, you might like it? Drivetrains: http://www.rohloffusa.com http://www.dualdrive.com (click on internal hubs to look at SRAM's other offerings) http://tinyurl.com/awnqa (Shimano's internals) and though not internal, we do love our Capreos. Check out: http://www.bikefriday.com/bf/capreo http://old.cycle.shimano.co.jp/gearindex/touring/capreo/ http://www.sheldonbrown.com/capreo/ Suspension pics, etc. Yes, soon. WE FINALLY HAVE A REAL TEST RIDE BIKE AVAILABLE. Unlike the original prototype, it is not enormous and is much more consistent with the current design. It is still a Sport and is equipped the same way as the original prototype, but it's there. We should have a Tour soon.. and when we do, I'll try to get some better pics. Until then, educate yourself about the Cane Creek Thudbuster LT elastomers: http://canecreek.com/100.html The bottom line is that they are made to fit a huge range of riding styles and weights, i.e. that they can be tuned to fit you. Though I've never measured the travel, it should be about 1.5" just figuring that the usual two-elastomer LT gets 3". The design on our recumbent is very cool because when you sit on the bike, it pre-loads the suspension so you will not notice it pogoing around, robbing you of power. You only really notice it on the bumps. And there you don't really notice since it's increasing comfort. :)


	Dusty Samouce November 27, 2005 02:02 PM PST The crank is too high and the seat angle is layed back too far. Improvement in configuration and comfort can be had by replacing the 20" front wheel/fork with a 16" wheel/fork which would drop the front end by about 4". Dusty


	bfwalter November 28, 2005 12:31 PM PST Dusty, though I understand your concerns, that's the intention with this design, much like it is with the Bachetta, the Volae, the RANS Force 5, and many other recumbents on the market today.


	bfwalter November 29, 2005 06:35 PM PST Did I mention we finally got the specs posted? http://www.bikefriday.com/catalog99.cfm


	Tim December 16, 2005 01:42 PM PST Hi there, The new SatRday looks great; wondering however if it's possible to get front suspension? Also, wondering if it's possible to post pics of the touring model on the site. Thanks! Tim


	Richard Clarke February 12, 2006 06:42 AM PST Hi Walter, I have had a chance to really look at the spec's on the new SRD and as an existing recumbent rider (existing SRD and others) I must say it is quite impressive. At this stage I am leaning towards the Tour version. Can you you let us know what the differences are other than the 406 wheelsets. Richard


	bikefridaywalter July 17, 2006 09:26 AM PDT Tim: You should see pics now on the website though they're all lacking front suspension. Sorry, it's not really a feasible option. Richard: The 406's have v-brakes and the adjustable front boom. The 451's have dual pivots and a fixed boom, not to mention the fact that they're hard to fit things like fenders on. We have sold mostly 406's.

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